To kick off 2021, Managing Director Todd Brown tunes in to share his background as a certified life coach, discuss his thoughts on change management for the new year, and dive deeper into his 7 Steps to Self-Determined Change.

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Episode 7: Looking at 2021 with Todd Brown

Julia:

Welcome to Access Answers’ first episode in 2021. I’m Julia Vergara. I’ll be your host along with Angela O’Pry, and we are so excited to have Todd Brown joining us for the podcast today.

Angela:

Yes, welcome Todd. Our first podcast of 2021, and I’m sure this will be a very exciting and hilarious episode for all of our listeners. Todd always happens to keep me in stitches, hunched over laughing, even when we have virtual meetings. So, I look forward to a fun discussion today.

Todd:

Well, I’ll try to keep it light. I don’t know how funny it will be, but we’ll see, right?

Angela:

Yeah, you always have a way to… I don’t know if it’s dad jokes or what. Do you have any planned for us today?

Todd:

No. I’ve used so many dad jokes over the holidays that I’m about dad joked out. So, I will not make you guys suffer through any dad jokes today.

Angela:

We’ll see if we can get one in by the end of the episode or not, but-

Todd:

Or at least intentionally. They might just organically happen.

Angela:

Yeah, that’s what I’m counting on. So, Todd, you’re a managing director for Access Sciences, and you have been with the company for how long now? Almost 10 years?

Todd:

I will actually have my 11th year anniversary in March.

Angela:

Wow.

Todd:

It’s easy to remember because it’s right around the anniversary of the company.

Angela:

Yes, so you’ve kind of seen the evolution of the company over the last several years.

Todd:

I have, and I don’t know if we’ve ever talked about this, but I actually became aware of Access Sciences in 2003 – way back in 2003 I joined… I don’t know if you want to hear this story. I don’t know if there are any dad jokes in it. No, but it was former employer, and I joined ARMA Houston. And that year, coincidentally, Access Sciences was managing and executing on the annual conference for ARMA Houston, which is a really big conference in the ARMA world, probably next to international in size. I went to a meeting for volunteers. It was my very first meeting. I remember Nancy Ramirez, who used to work for Exxon Mobil, was the president of the chapter that year. I showed up. I said, “I want to get involved. If I join an organization, I want to do more than just be a member.”

She said, “Go to that table over there.” Well, on that table over there, it was at Spaghetti Warehouse downtown, on the north side of downtown, happened to be Janice Anderson and a whole slew of Access Sciences folks, as well as some other people. That was my first introduction to the company.

Angela:

It’s kind of been full circle for you. Still involved with ARMA and for our listeners who may not know what ARMA stands for can you tell them a little bit more about ARMA?

Todd:

Yeah. It has such a sexy name. It’s the Association… Association of Records Managers and Administrators. Obviously, they shortened it for ARMA and I think that anyone who knows of ARMA or is a member of ARMA knows that it’s kind of morphed over the years. Originally way back records were physical records mostly and now they’re typically electronic, so it’s morphed over the years as well as its focus is more on information governance versus just pure records management but it’s a great organization. I love being involved in it. I’m currently the VP of Communications for the chapter. I’ve been on and off the board for I think 10 years. Served various roles including president so definitely know my way around ARMA in Houston, that’s for sure.

Julia:

Any fun plans this year for 2021?

Todd:

Big plans for ARMA this year? We had to cancel the annual conference last year because of the pandemic, yeah just last year. Gosh, it is… it’s January 4th. I’m still in holiday mode. You guys are putting me to work early in the new year. We canceled the conference last year. This April the 20th and the 21st will be the virtual conference. We’re going virtual. We’re going to try a platform that the conference committee has done a tremendous amount of research on. Sabrina Nicholson has done just an outstanding job with her team and they’ve made a decision and we’re moving forward with the conference. I think aside from the fact that it provides a lot of educational content for folks and people are as hungry for… Hungry as ever for educational content even though we could be a little bit overwhelmed with webinars and so forth. You still have to get your continuing education credits and so forth. The other half of that is that this event is a huge money maker for the chapter and all of that money, anything that we generate off… Not anything, I guess. We have to pay for our operating expenses, but we donate the proceeds of what we… The delta, the positive delta at the end of the year to a couple charities.

One of them is ALHEF which is the Alice L. Haltom Educational Foundation. We also donate to Highlighting Literacy for kids. That is Sevens Elementary up in the northwest area of Houston. I think we’ve talked about this that over the last several years the chapter has donated over $300,000-

 

Angela:

Wow.

Todd:

That have gone to scholarships for continuing education or just getting your degree. You have to fill out an application but regularly award multiple scholarships and then we always make a donation to Stevens. It’s really cool, and it provides education as well as gives back to the community.

Angela:

That’s great. I love giving back to charity and we found with our own events and initiatives that including that donation option has been really successful and something we plan to continue in 2021.

Todd:

I love the fact that you guys did that. You and Julia are so creative, and you picked some wonderful charities and I forget so tell me, but I really like the fact that we can give back and our clients and even folks who don’t do business with us that attended these webinars this year made donations.

Angela:

Absolutely.

Todd:

Especially in a pandemic, people are in need and even outside of a pandemic there are always amazing causes. I like that.

Angela:

Yes, we’re very excited for 2021 and a continuing relationship with Girls Who Code and the Barbara Bush Houston Literacy Foundation.

Todd:

Yeah, I like both of those quite a bit.

Angela:

One thing that listeners or even our fellow employees, coworkers may not know about you is that you are a certified life coach.

Todd:

I did get my certification. I went back to university. I went to University of Texas Dallas. That, I am telling you, I’m not young like both of you and my brain was not ready for college again and it took me a good month. It took me a good month to really get into the groove, but I did and I really enjoyed it. I don’t know if we talked about this but one of the reasons why I made that decision, one is because we use so much change management in the work that we deliver. Every project that we deliver we thread change management throughout the project for that stickiness factor, right? On the flip side I over the years have read some books like The Power of Habit. I don’t know if you read that-

Angela:

I did.

Todd:

By a gentleman named Charles. I think Charles Duhigg. I might be mispronouncing the name but that happens. I love that book. I read it several years ago. I forget when it was written. It’s been a while and my background was in HR and organizational behavior. My degree and all that kind of stuff. I’ve worked in HR in my past, so it was just one of those things that I think that I maybe should’ve done earlier but just never got around to it. Was just too busy working and so I went back and really really enjoyed the experience and I think I learned a lot. One of my favorite areas was when we studied motivational theory and I find that it really aligns nicely with The Power of Habit, that book by Duhigg and then what we do and the tenets that it proposes, and it also nicely aligns with positive psychology which is… That’s just so huge nowadays but it’s really not that old. It’s only a couple decades old. Then the explosion of Brené Brown and all of her work and research and so all these things kind of intertwine and so it was really kind of a nice, kind of coming together over a lot of different things in my experiences and just my interests as things have kind of morphed and evolved over time with me.

Julia:

Speaking of change management, you wrote a blog at the end of 2020 on your seven steps to self-determined change. How did you come up with these steps?

Todd:

Well, I just woke up one day and just magically… It’s all from my brain, right? No.

Angela:

You had fairies around you, right? Sprinkling dust, spreading them.

Todd:

Exactly, exactly. Well, a reference back to that book, The Power of Habit. There are elements of it in that, there are elements of it in motivational theory. There was a really cool TEDX talk. I know you guys are big in the TED talks. So many strategies are out there nowadays about morphing habits and changing habits and behaviors and really that article was born out of change management and what is a practical way to change behavior. A part of that is how we just get into these habits of our behaviors at work or in our personal life and sometimes it can seem overwhelming of thought of modifying that behavior. The one thing that always stuck with me out of that Duhigg book, The Power of Habit was that you’re not… You don’t break a habit, you replace the habit. You want to move in a positive direction so you focus on what you can achieve. How can you move forward in a way that’s successful? You break this, again, you don’t break it, but you replace the… I think it’s if I’m remembering the book correctly there’s this thing called a habit loop where you have your cue, your routine, and your reward.

When you get the cue, you replace the routine. It takes time, right? It takes several months but you replace the routine with something that’s more positive. Instead of when I get home from work, oh I need some potato chips and I want to sit down and watch the news and I get rewarded because I get my potato chips and I get my news fix but instead maybe I start two days a week or three days a week, but I go to the gym. Then you see the value or the benefits out of doing that. Then your reward slowly but surely your behavior is going to morph and change and you’re going to be a lot more excited about doing something that’s maybe a little bit more productive than being a couch potato.

The other area that came out of that article, that blog was an area that I studied at UTD and that organizational development, that coaching program called appreciative inquiry and we’ve talked about that internally. I love it. It comes out of organizational development, the study of organizational development and one of the co-creators is this gentleman named David Cooperrider and he… I hope I can remember this correctly. I know I’m being recorded but he is in a school of management at Case Western University. He’s the co-creator of this and it’s based in positive psychology and so it’s all about focusing and leveraging your core strengths where you design and you kind of redesign your future and with organizations it’s designing and redesigning systems within organizations so you can achieve these sustainable outcomes that you’re looking to see happen down the road for the org.

It’s very much focused in innovation and collaboration which we’re big on internally within our company and it has applications at an individual level, right because change management people know that change happens on an individual basis. It’s not this organism that changes, it’s the individuals within the organism, right? This organization. I just thought it would be good and you guys said, “Hey, we need this,” and you didn’t give me much lead time and so I was thinking, “Oh, New Year’s resolutions. Let’s do something super practical. It doesn’t have to be complex and so the tenets of this appreciative inquiry are where you define and you discover what’s going well, what is the best of my life right now? What do I want to explore a little bit more? What can I build on? Where am I seeing my wins? Where am I seeing my successes?

Then what might I do with that? What could I make of that? Some of the accomplishments that you’ve had or I’ve had, how could I build on those? Then what do I want the outcome to be? Getting my mind thinking about what should the outcome be? Over that hurdle of motivation of actually moving forward versus wanting and really thinking that you need it. Then what’s that small thing that you can do, what’s that next smallest action or next step that you can do to move forward and then something that we’re real big on internally is how do you enable success and how do you sustain your progress? What resources are you going to need so that you can move forward or take that step and then how will you hold yourself accountable? It’s kind of a morphing of what we do in change management and this appreciative inquiry, the study of appreciative inquiry. That’s how that blog kind of came to be.

Angela:

We always know you can perform very well under pressure and you did not disappoint by turning that around for us very quickly so thank you for that. I think the activity that you list out in the blog and for anyone who may not have read it yet can certainly find it on our website, it’s an interesting activity to do at the end of 2020 and the timing was very relevant because there is so much in the media and in the mindset and the psychology and communication about how awful 2020 was and I’m not here to say that it wasn’t awful. It was tragic and devastating for the world and for many people. However, the mindset for yourself when you reflect what were some of those small wins that you had? What can you celebrate and really turning that around so that your mindset coming into 2021 is on a positive note versus focusing on all of the horrible, negative, tragic events of 2020.

Todd:

Yeah, absolutely. I think that all of… Well, I can’t speak for you two. Y’all are always so upbeat and bubbly and wonderful to work with. Personally, I deal sometimes with that struggle of picking something apart and I think a part of that is when you’re in consulting you’re looking for what’s going wrong sometimes and how do we fix it? Being problem solvers and it’s almost like this deficit-based approach that you take which is usually what you consider when you do an assessment. A lot of it is deficit based. There is that balance, but I think that looking at what is going well is such a happier place to be and I do try to recenter myself and stay self-aware about having that outlook.

Angela:

In your blog you tell a story about your 19-year-old daughter who had come home from college and just really wanted to have that time with the family tradition to decorate the tree after Thanksgiving and I thought that was hilarious. I can certainly relate to that too. I don’t know what got into my mom. I had a stern talking to her the other day because she thought it was a great idea to try to change the macaroni and cheese recipe after 30 years. Why do you think that’s a good idea? No.

Todd:

That is not a good idea to change a mac and cheese recipe. Even I think that’s a dangerous move.

Angela:

Yes, right? She was like, “Oh, just want to make it easier and more convenient. I was like, “No. No.”

Todd:

You know, no shortcuts. I will admit, I was the person in that article in the blog-

Angela:

You’re outing yours

Todd:

Full disclosure. I am outing myself here. I made the comment, and part of it was just to kind of poke at her a little bit for fun.

Angela:

Right, because you never do that with people ever.

Todd:

Well, just a little fun knowing full well that we were going to put the tree up, but it just did not turn out how I expected. I got a fairly extreme reaction and so you’re right. I think that was kind of one of those moments in the year where you realize how stressful the year was for everyone and really trying to stay on the positive side. I avoided future pokes throughout the holidays, and I was just sharing with Julia this morning in another chat that we were checking in about how our holidays went that my daughter proclaimed that it was the best holiday she’s had in years.

Angela:

Wow.

Julia:

Good to hear.

Angela:

Yeah, that’s awesome.

Todd:

I think maybe for all of us looking at the upside and it really was kind of a stripped-down year. It was super simple for many people.

Angela:

Back to basics.

Todd:

Just that simplicity and just getting back into that warm and fuzzy sweater or whatever, the blanket that you put on.

Angela:

Your onesie. You can tell everybody, the onesie that you have. Y’all have family matching onesies with the dog.

Todd:

You know I have never done that but… I think that just getting back into that simple, those traditions which really are kind of habit at the foundation, right can make us feel good.

Julia:

Todd, from what we’ve heard from our clients and others within the industry, change management is still going to be a top priority for organizations in 2021. What change management challenges or obstacles would you say we can anticipate in the new year?

Todd:

Wish you guys had prepped me for this. We could probably talk about this… This is probably a webinar, two-part webinar or something and I would just say interrupt me if I’m rambling because there’s a lot about this that we could even address. There’s different angles you could come at this question but I think that if we put things in perspective that most of the year we were in the middle of a pandemic and companies across all industries, all regions of the world, we could focus on North America, right? They had to change the way that they did business. I’ve read a lot of stuff this year. When you get under fire and you feel like you’re under fire or stress you’re wanting to dig your way out so for me it’s just trying to learn more about what is going on and what can we do and what can our clients do and what are they doing and so all the articles and all the surveys that I’ve read, this digital transformation that’s been around for years and it means different things to different people, I think most companies had to expedite or speed up this transformation and in some of the articles I read said that organizations sped it up by three to four years in just what, 10 months?

Which is crazy to think about. Then you think about you’ve got your digital transformation and then you got your adoption. Just in a normal project that challenge of moving through and working with project management and balancing your change management and it’s a several month project and just getting the desired results with your end users and sustaining that adoption is a challenge without all the stress of a pandemic. My brain has just exploded over how important is this and this digital transformation, it’s really a critical component of businesses nowadays. When I talk to executives at organizations that sometimes they look at you when you’re talking about digital transformation and they’re like, “It’s just about being more efficient. For us, we think of it as a foundational element to managing all your information. You need to know what you have, you need to know where it is, you need to classify it, get it in the right systems and all that.

Now we’re talking on a much bigger scale across the organization not only on our side of the business but also on the ERP side of the house so structured, non structured data, right? I think the thing that’s interesting is I might get off on a tangent here about just motivational theory. If you talk about motivating somebody before if an executive thought, “Oh we’re going to get to it. It’s not the table. It’s a three to four year goal,” then I’m thinking about change needing to happen in several months. It’s a great example of how motivation and change kind of interact and understanding the value so all of a sudden there’s this tremendous value to moving forward and that really… Motivation is always preceded by committed action and you’ve got understand the value of something in order to make that jump. It’s the importance of the goal and then it’s the confidence that people have and the ability to even accomplish that goal and hopefully there’s this readiness to move forward and achieve the goal within the organization.

Also, and interrupt me here because I may just be rambling but what I read was that most organization because they move so quickly, quicker than they ever thought they could move, they haven’t met their goals for adoption. It’s become this top priority but the success rate and sustainability of these solutions is not where they would like it to be.

Angela:

Well, it’s not just setting up Microsoft Teams, right? We have those conversations on a regular basis with other organizations. I just was talking to somebody the other day. Their company set up Teams for them to use but they didn’t receive training for how to use it or why to use it so they just set up personal Zoom accounts. Well then the company figured out that that was happening. You have hundreds of employees using personal Zoom accounts conducting business through that personal account is a huge threat to the organization.

Todd:

Yeah, absolutely and the work that we do, we see that digital transformation in general has a lower success rate than more traditional business-related transformations and initiatives, right? Organizations, how do you sustain the momentum in this transformation? Well, you’ve got to have a really strong, I’ll use a consultant word, rigorous change management strategy and then an internal communication program because you have to clarify what is the impact on the organization and the value to everyone in it versus, I’m just mandating that this is what we’re going to do, or IT is implementing a cloud solution. You’ve got to have that organizational alignment and commitment if you want to be successful.

Angela:

It was also eye opening to me to think about digital transformation. I know that’s a buzzword. Prob should’ve played a drinking game on this podcast with the number of times we say that. I always thought about it in terms of automation and AI and all the cool, fun fancy stuff that you can do with technology. I really underestimated that companies were simply trying to distribute laptops so that their workers could work from home. We’re talking basic 101 kind of transformation.

Todd:

Absolutely. You think about that, having access to the right information when they need it.

Angela:

Yes.

Todd:

Of course, from an information governance standpoint which is kind of our world along with that technology enablement, how do you manage it throughout the life cycle now that it’s being created at home and if you’re not keeping it in the right systems if they’re keeping it on their laptops versus in the cloud or getting it into the system via VPN or whatever the connectivity. That’s really a topic for one of our technology experts but everything that I’ve read said that the number that’s sticking into my head is that on average more than 70% of the people that are surveyed, and this is across different reporting articles that I’ve seen, 70% of the organizations lost their momentum at some point during this transformation and they haven’t completed it. It has not reached what we call in consulting, full scale or they started it, maybe they didn’t start it, maybe they just were paralyzed which happens. Maybe they started it and it stalled before it really achieved it full impact or it’s expected impact.

Then I think that what is that number out of there who are in the various categories of didn’t start, stalled, on the journey, having whatever challenge, blah, blah, blah. I think that’s interesting. You asked me, I think your original question which I very often lose track of, must be my ADD but I think that it’s really about how do they take what they’ve accomplished so far and really understand the elements of change management to be able to pull this through to the finish line. Maybe I shouldn’t use the word finish line because we know it never ends, right? The journey never ends but at least accomplishing that intermittent goal or that shorter term goal of a scalable digital solution that allows people to work remotely because that seems to be the way things are going to be in 2021 still and maybe going forward. We’re moving to more of a hybrid model ourselves. I think many of our clients are. How do you get that to the point where you can say your organization made that transition and it’s working effectively?

I think that goes back to just a good solid change management strategy. If you think about what are those factors that lead to failure in not being able to execute on your transformation strategy, very often it is a lack of clarity in your messaging. It’s a lack of an understanding of the value on that individual level. What’s in it for me? That’s probably been said so many times but why am I going to make this change? Then the alignment and commitment throughout the organization, the understanding of it translating into longer term goals, and so on and so on. Gosh, this is a topic that it’s such a great topic, but I don’t even know how to answer that in a short response which hasn’t been short already.

Angela:

Well, looking out into the blank piece of paper that is ahead of us that is 2021. There’s still so many unknowns and uncertainties about what the year has ahead of us and I think in general I’m sensing a very positive feeling which is great. It’s a new beginning, there’s a renewed sense of hope but the ability to remain agile and accepting of change is very important I believe to getting through the year. I don’t know how you feel about that but work from home is likely to continue until when we don’t really know, some are through summer, some might be the whole year, some might be back to the office now in January. Working from home challenges and just the COVID cases we have no idea.

Todd:

Yeah. Absolutely and you know when you say that word agile it really… My brain is now going down another path of thought that how important is that to reassess. Move forward, reassess, move forward, reassess and it’s common practice nowadays. I always hear our tech folks saying, “We’re in XYZ sprint,” but a low success rate in any kind of transformation project is really I think due to a lack of alignment and commitment across the organization. The organization may not have the necessary core competencies which kind of ties back to the blog a little bit about what do you do well and how do you build on that but if you have deficiencies and you want to move forward, when you talk about what resources you may need, resources could include education and training in other areas, right? Another thing is the culture in general. A misaligned culture from the standpoint of the executives and the people that are making these decisions really understanding the internal environment versus the external environment what they’re trying to accomplish because of external pressures but not doing a proper internal assessment of how do we work? What’s important to our people and then how do we take that and move forward.

Getting that clarity and commitment across the organization is key. Realistic, going back to the blog maybe, realistic model, solution model and design and goals that are associated with that transformation that you’re wanting to achieve. Very specific objectives for your overall business outcomes that you want to achiever that to, not to overuse the word but are realistic and attainable versus lofty, pie in the sky and then making sure that you have the right people, resources to execute on that transformation. Very often you just see that one of those three things is missing, and the wheels come off very quickly. Then you have all these other competing priorities within organizations, right? If you talk about culture, you talk about in past projects that are similar to this going back to the blog and that strategy what similar projects have you accomplished that have worked well? How did you achieve them? How did you achieve that successful outcome?

What are all these other priorities that you’re asking people to deal with in the middle of trying to accomplish this digital transformation? Because fatigue really sets in. Perfect example is my daughter imploding over the tree comment which was very innocent but still it was just fatigue of the year and then how does the organization historically respond to change? What are the lessons that they’ve learned so far? When you talk about that agile element, taking inventory of what’s worked well, what’s not worked well. How do we communicate effectively within the company and then making sure that executives don’t lose sight? With all due respect to executives, they’ve got a lot of priorities so not thinking that okay, I said we’re going to do this and now I switched my priority to something else because if they don’t maintain that active and visible support of this initiative the three of us on this call and I think anyone who’s familiar with change management knows that that project will fail.

Angela:

Yes, definitely have to have the buy in in order to be successful so that the group feels a part of the mission that they’re working to accomplish. It will be interesting to see productivity levels because that was a big topic in 2020 that working from home and the pandemic, people were able to maintain productivity in their jobs despite maybe having children at home ding virtual school or other distractions but the burnout became very real for many people toward the end of the year, so I’m interested to see how the working from home fatigue burnout productivity balance shapes out.

Todd:

Yeah, I think that that’s the one thing that I guess from an HR standpoint and management standpoint really keeping your pulse on what you’re asking your people to do and then how you’re enabling them and how you’re supporting them because fatigue, I don’t know who hasn’t felt that during the pandemic. Not only are you normally feel it when you’re working or even in your personal life but then you throw the pandemic on top of it and it’s like this crazy storm. How do you effectively manage that and it really is… What’s coming to my mind, I know my ADD has fully kicked in.

Angela:

Are you sure it’s ADD or the cups of coffee you had this morning?

Todd:

Well, you know I am a coffee lover. I think the thing that is resonating with me right now as we’re talking through this is this TEDX talk that I saw, gosh it’s got to be a handful of years ago and it was about… It was tied in with motivational theory which is very often used for compulsive behavior and sometimes to the extent of addiction, right? When people have addiction and some of our habits are based in some kind of addiction like my coffee addiction. When you said that coffee addiction that’s where my brain went, right? We’re also talking about how do you deal with fatigue? I think that one of the things that we’ve talked about this year is authenticity and how leaders showing up and being authentic and admitting or saying, I don’t know, or I made a mistake. Whatever your role in the organization but just being real with your people. I think about those tenets of addressing addiction where they… I think it’s, what is it? Authenticity, surrender the outcome and do uncomfortable work. That’s all founded in motivational theory.

Any kind of addictive therapy or program will do that, but you can’t worry about what you can’t control but you can be authentic, you can build that trust through logical decision making with your folks and listening. That’s a whole other topic about how to listen. We’re going to have to do some tough stuff, right? We’re going to have to work together, we’re going to have to collaborate, we’re going to have to innovate and really work together to do some uncomfortable work in order to survive and thrive and get through this pandemic but also just in general to compete as an organization.

Angela:

I love that Todd and I think that’s good motivation in and of itself the message you just shared with the audience. Any other parting words? Channel that life coach inside of you that always has words of wisdom to share. What would you say to the audience for 2021?

Todd:

First of all, thank you for putting me on the spot to just pull something out of air. I need some more fairy dust here to just trickle down on me about a parting comment but in the spirit of what I was just talking about I think that we all really need to be self-aware and develop a sense of mindfulness and the courage really to break some patterns in our lives that maybe existed before the pandemic or the pandemic has created that are no longer really serving who we are or what is needed during this time and be methodical and try to tease out that emotion of the situation and the stress out of the situation to develop our personal action plan on how we continue to make incremental progress forward. Recognize what’s going really well, focus on that. Being mindful of your limitations, of taking inventory of where you might want to beef up your knowledge, your training. How can you contribute within your organization? How can you be better on a personal level and make those changes as best you can.

Angela:

No, I like that. Be mindful and celebrate small wins. That’s going to stick with me.

Todd:

Yeah, I think you did a better job. You just did a better job than I did. Fewer words, fewer words and say that same thing, yes.

Angela:

Incremental progress. That’s the key.

Todd:

It really is. I think it’s the hardest thing to do too.

Angela:

It is because we always just want to… Why eat just one little piece of the cake when you can eat the whole cake?

Todd:

You know that’s right. You know I am going to be hitting the gym after the holidays.

Angela:

Thank you so much for being our guest today and for rolling with the punches, making us laugh and being put on the spot to answer the tough questions. We really appreciate your words of wisdom looking ahead into 2021 and hope to have you back as a guest.

Todd:

Thank you both very much.