Following Access Sciences’ Women Who Code blog, Project Manager Shermaine Haymer shares her own journey as a woman who codes, her thoughts on ethical computing, and what it’s like to be a parent in a pandemic.

Also available to listen on:

       

PODCAST

TRANSCRIPT

Episode 6: A Woman Who Codes with Shermaine Haymer

Julia:

Welcome to access answers. I’m Julia Vergara your host along with Angela O’Pry. So, if you don’t already know, Access Sciences is dedicated to supporting and promoting Girls Who Code. So, Girls Who Code is a nonprofit organization striving to close the gender gap in tech. And joining us today is one of our own women who code, Shermaine Haymer.

Angela:

So, we are so happy to have Shermaine on the call with us today. She is truly one of the most beautiful women I’ve ever met. And her entire family is magazine cover, but also one of the most intelligent women that I have ever met. Her computer science background is really astonishing and her experience with Girls Who Code and the chapter in Baton Rouge. So, Shermaine, welcome.

Shermaine:

Good morning, everyone. I’m really excited to be here with you ladies this morning. Thanks for inviting me.

Angela:

Of course, why don’t we start by talking a little bit about your background?

Shermaine:

Okay. And I often find that a difficult question to answer. So, I’ll do my best. I have been in this career for over, gosh, 20 years now, probably 21 years. So, I have a lot of projects, I’ve worked with a lot of wonderful, intelligent people. So, it’s been a really good career and I’ve enjoyed the vast majority of it. So, I guess just to get started, I like to think of myself as a developer, a problem solver, I’m also a mentor, a technical lead, and now a project manager. So that kind of in a nutshell describes my career over the last 20 or so years. And most of my technical experience has been working with government agencies, contractors in private sector software implementations. Like I said, it’s been a fun ride. I often like to call what I do fun, which is simple word, but it gets the message across that I really enjoy my work.

And I don’t think you could do something like this for over 20 years and not enjoy it. So along with that, I do have a master’s degree in computer science. And my undergraduate degree was in computer information systems. And I know that degree changes quite often, I’ve heard it called management information systems from other people. I think it’s a term that changes throughout different universities but it’s very similar, as it’s computer science with a more of a business background for undergrad and then I went strictly computer science for the master’s degree. And I don’t know if that was as much fun as working. But I got through it. So, after that, I worked… Gosh, let me start at the beginning. I’m sorry. So, my work experience started with State Farm Insurance Companies at the corporate headquarters in Bloomington, Illinois, where I also had an intern when I was in college. And that helped me to make my decision of working for State Farm. And it was a great decision, a really wonderful company. It’s a large company, but they really are a good neighbor.

There’s a lot of good people that work there and I learned a great deal about coding and structuring programs and just the foundation of the software development lifecycle. So, I got a lot of my foundation at State Farm in Illinois. And then I moved on to get my master’s degree because I wanted a bit more of a technical background. Of course, when you’re a technical person, it seems like it’s never enough for us. We’re always looking for something else, more to do, bigger projects. So, after the master’s degree, I moved on to Lockheed Martin, and that was in New Orleans, Louisiana. And I had a wonderful experience there, because Lockheed Martin had a long-term contract with NASA. So, they were responsible for building the external tank for the space shuttle. And I had a wonderful opportunity to work on the PMES system, which is the paperless manufacturing engineering system, which managed all of the construction, the materials and the building of the external tank. And it was phenomenal just walking out onto the floor where they were building the tank for the space shuttle, it’s difficult to describe how tall it is and how wide. It’s beyond comprehension. It was in this… I can’t even call it a warehouse. It was like maybe 20 to 30… What you think of a warehouse, it’s like 20 to 30 of those, that’s the size.

Angela:

Wow!

Shermaine:

The tank was in there, and everyone’s working. And I got to speak to all of the engineers about any issues they were having the software, and then I bring those requirements back. And we test the system to make sure that it was working, and then we push out the updates to production. So, it felt like a… It was a really important role, and I took it very seriously, even though I was more of a support role there, but it was a wonderful opportunity to do something great and feel like you were a part of something that was important.

Angela:

Yeah, absolutely. That sounds like a huge project.

Shermaine:

Yeah, it was wonderful, actually. And of course, the NASA changed the space shuttle program. So, they’re no longer building the tank in that manner. But all the people that work there were just really some of the smartest people that we have in this country. So, it was really wonderful just to be around that every day. So, I did move on from that role into working for the state of Louisiana for several years, I’ve had some really great experiences there as well like I said, many projects, so many that sometimes I’ll forget what I’ve worked on in the past. My brain is like… You ladies are really young, but there’s a Rolodex. Do you remember the Rolodex that you had to roll to find information?

Angela:

Yes. My dad had one-

Shermaine:

That’s how my brain works. Yes. So sometimes I’ll have to roll back my Rolodex for years to try and remember something. And I know it’s in there, and I know it’ll come to me, but sometimes it takes a little while for me to remember.

So that kind of brings me to present day working with Access Sciences and this project that I’m currently working on, is really a lot of fun, like I said before. So, I’m working with a Louisiana client for Access Sciences to implement a new electronic document management system. And it’s a huge enterprise-wide project, where we’re working with several different groups and several different agencies to make sure that this is successful. And what’s really exciting about this project is that it’s the first of its kind, and Access Sciences is like the bridge bringing these two to three separate agencies together, and we’re building this new architecture that will be the framework for other agencies that come along in the future. So, we’re establishing the template and the procedures and the processes of what other agencies will need to follow to be successful in implementing their enterprise document management system. I hope that makes sense. I try to keep it really high level.

Angela:

That’s such a long career and so much experience. I am just so happy that Access Sciences has you now.

Shermaine:

I know, happy to be here.

Angela:

So, with that project that you’re working on right now, did you have any pivotal changes this year in 2020, working from home or changes to the project?

Shermaine:

I can say, of course, we’re all living through this pandemic. And for our project we had to switch to 100% virtual, and I work with a really exceptional project team, and they have been able to move forward without skipping a bit. There wasn’t even a day of adjusting, we just all moved forward into this new way of working and it’s worked well for my team because of the type of work that we do. Honestly, I have to say the most… Maybe the main challenges that we face have been environmental as in the hurricane in Louisiana.

Angela:

Yeah, I was going to ask about that. How it’s going these days?

Shermaine:

Yeah, it seems like every other week we’ve had a hurricane this year. I live here, I’ve been here for many years, like 15 years and we’ve never had this many hurricanes in one season. It’s kind of scary sometimes. We don’t understand what’s happening.

Angela:

I know. We recently did some internal communication about what our employees are thankful for. And one of my favorites was from an employee in Louisiana that was thankful for a running generator.

Shermaine:

Oh, gosh! Yes. One of the things on my list, my husband said, “What do we need?” And I said, “Gosh, we need a generator.” And he says, “Well, they’re all sold out.” We have wonderful neighbors who said, “We just purchased one of those industrial plugs that’s long enough and we’ll make sure that your refrigerator has… You have power there.” So, we were really grateful to them for sharing their generator with us.

Angela:

Oh, what great neighbors! I know in Houston, we all have to have generators here.

Shermaine:

Yes, it’s… And then you have to really think about the safety of how to… You have to become an expert in how to run a generator. There are safety concerns with that.

Angela:

Yes, certainly. So, throughout your career, in your background, you are able to make so much progress and have so many accomplishments, all the while building a family with three beautiful children, two of which are twins that are adorable. Tell us what that’s like.

Shermaine:

Thank you so much. Wow! That’s a good question. And I always have to give a very honest answer, being a woman in technology and having a family, I love women who say that balance is everything and I’m always seeking that balance. And sometimes it’s difficult, because your children, they go through so many phases when they’re babies, you think it’s difficult, because gosh! Having a baby is a lot of work. However, as they grow older, their needs change and you have to change with them. So, I’m not going to say that it gets easier, but I have learned when to stop one part of my life and start another. And there are sometimes where you have to let go. And I’ve been a perfectionist my entire life. And I’m working now on not being a perfectionist, because it helps for you to learn to let go and to move on to working on something else and not being perfect. No one’s a perfect mother or a perfect developer. So, I just do the best that I can. And I take it one day at a time.

Angela:

So, I know that your role as a mom has also changed with the pandemic, so tell us what it’s like just to be a parent during this pandemic.

Shermaine:

Wow! That’s a hard-hitting question here. I have to say, I think there was a New York Times article that a mom wrote that really resonated with me, and she was in New York mother. And she said that in the beginning of the pandemic, if you had told American moms that you have to do A through Z, or one, two, three, just give us a list of things that we have to do in the next two to three months to get over this. She said we would have done it. And I agreed with her. I would have done anything. I would have done anything to not have to teach my children at home.

Angela:

Yeah.

Shermaine:

Whatever was asked of me, I would have done. Give up salary for two months, whatever. But I value teachers so much more now, because it’s a hard job. I’ve had to do it for a few months and it’s difficult being there to support them and support their teachers and work full time.

Angela:

In what grade are they in?

Shermaine:

My twins are actually in the fifth grade, which nowadays fifth grade is like college. They have to write essays and their math is quite difficult. So, they work very hard. And I also have a third grader.

Angela:

Oh.

Shermaine:

Yes. And they’re actually back in school now, we were allowed to send the children back to school about a month ago. So, they prefer to go back and I don’t know how long it’s going to last, the pandemic and COVID changes every day. So, we’re just waiting to see what happens.

Angela:

Well, I’m sure they were very excited to go back. My two nieces who are-

Shermaine:

Yes.

Angela:

…15 and 12, and they are itching to get back in school, which you never thought you would hear from a 15- and 12-year-old  they want to be going to school.

Shermaine:

I know. It’s strange for them even being at school, but it’s better. It’s much better.

Angela:

Yes, I agree. There are so many benefits to being at home and being comfortable and being surrounded by family for us in the working world and also for children. But I think there is the component of feeling connected and having that in person time with your peers is so important, especially for developing children.

Shermaine:

Right, right.

Angela:

Well, Julia and I only have dogs, which do not compare to children. Julia’s trying to raise a puppy right now.

Shermaine:

Aww!

Angela:

She might take some of your mom advice to apply that to her little puppy.

Julia:

He’s definitely not doing virtual school or anything.

Shermaine:

Maybe some virtual puppy training classes.

Julia:

Yeah, I’m teaching him to sit versus teaching him fifth grade math, which I-

Shermaine:

Great, all day. You still have to reinforce and have discipline. So, it’s similar.

Angela:

What other advice you have for working moms? What would you say?

Shermaine:

I would definitely say that you have to get away. Well, that’s what I do. So, for me, it’s important for me. And even if it means hiding from your family, it’s okay. Because in my family, there’s just a lot of need there. And it’s the same thing… Seriously, it’s the same thing with a puppy. If you’re there, sometimes they’re not going to try on their own. So, you have to kind of disappear and let them have some independence. My children are very dependent on me lots of times for every decision they make. So, I’m trying to kind of help push them along now that they’re 10 and eight, and to being a bit more independent and responsible. So, I try and get away.

Angela:

That is good advice.

Shermaine:

Yes. So, when they’re really young, you cannot do that, because they’re young. And my husband and I often joke that when your children are babies and toddlers, they’re constantly trying to kill themselves by accident. We were like, “What is wrong with these babies?” Because our first set of kids were twins, so we always say they and them and it’s just the way we are. And we were like, “Those kids are just always…” We had gates everywhere, we have all protective plugs, but they were always finding ways to just get into trouble. So, when they’re very young, it’s so hard. You have to be really hands-on.

Angela:

Yes, keep you on your toes for sure. And challenge you. It’s like, you think you have all the outlets covered and all the doorknobs protected.

Shermaine:

But then you get one that’s a climber and who knew.

Angela:

Yes, it’s so funny.

Shermaine:

It’s scary.

Angela:

Yes. Yes. Well, thankfully they… Actually, I was going to say, thankfully they grow out of that, but I don’t know if they ever do. The thought of my niece driving a car is terrifying.

Shermaine:

Right. And then their personalities are… They stay the same. So, if they’re an adventurous baby, they’re going to be an adventurous teen and you’re still worried.

Angela:

Yes, yes. Todd loves to tell a story about his daughter climbing a wall. She was a climber.

Shermaine:

Gosh!

Angela:

Nothing can stop her.

Shermaine:

Oh, wow!

Angela:

So, Shermaine, take us back to your elementary school, middle school, high school days and tell us a little bit about how you learned about coding and what got you into it.

Shermaine:

So, I grew up in West Texas, a town called Abilene, Texas, and it’s the prettiest town you’ve ever seen. And I grew up in a town with a really great school district, and I think our education was excellent. However, when I was going through junior high in high school, I don’t recall any coding or robotics camps or classes, were available. I’m not sure if it was just me not being aware, but I didn’t have any exposure to any of that. There were typing class, where we were once introduced to this little dot matrix program where you could… It was more like an art program where you could add in X and Y coordinates to like create a Christmas tree. So that was the extent of my programming in the seventh grade, just creating a Christmas tree. Other than that, I went through high school, just a normal high school student and taking those aptitude test by your counselor, I think they pegged me as a helper. I wasn’t sure what that meant, I still don’t.

Angela:

As a helper, that-

Shermaine:

Yeah. I’m totally against those type of assessments, actually now, because of that. Because it was really confusing for me in high school, I thought they were going to tell me something profound like, “This is what you should do with your life.” They told me nothing. So, I moved on to college and I really was interested more in science and biology at first, and then I somehow stumbled into a programming course. I think it might have been an accident of just what was available. If you wait too long, it’s hard to get the courses that you would like. So, I took an intro to programming and the first language was C++. And I thought it was just fantastic. I had never found something so challenging and so rewarding. And my greatest memories of that class is just how we… We had to work in a lab by the way. There weren’t any like… Most of us didn’t have PCs back then. So, this was the late 90s, so I am dating myself.

So, we had a computer lab and one of my best memories of this time in college was working in a computer lab with all the other students. And we would… Some of the more serious students are the people who learned that they were loving programming, we would sit in the lab all day after class. So, we would sit in the lab for six, seven, eight hours, just eating junk food and trying to figure out our programs, and once we got the program working, it was really fun to have someone come in and break your code. So, that’s when I realized I was truly a nerd. That was just the most fun I have had in college. Sitting in a computer lab working on code for seven hours a day. So, it was really fun. Good time. So, that was kind of my introduction to code, it was actually in college. So, it was late considering how most people are introduced to code through gaming. I was never a gamer in that sense. I was never interested in games, I’m still not.

So, there are different paths to this career. And I actually find that… I feel like I’m a more capable person when I talk to users, because I’m a real person, and I understand their frustrations. And I love talking to people and hearing about their concerns. And so maybe I am a helper. I love listening to their problems and trying to figure out a technical solution to their problems.

Julia:

So, I know you’ve given a lot of talks on ethical computing. Can you tell us a little bit about what that is and why you’re so passionate about it?

Shermaine:

Oh, I’d love to. So ethical computing has been… It was kind of something that was floating around for many years as I’ve worked on different projects. And I finally put a name to it a few years ago, what I was feeling and learning by working with different groups of people. And fundamentally it’s related to… Honestly, it started out with a fear, the fear of where technology is heading and where we’re being led and how we’re being led there. So, I think fear is a natural motivator, but it did help to fuel my interest in ethical computing. What I mean when I talk about fear, is that a lot of like my friends and family and just general society, they’re not as aware about technology and how it works as most of us in the industry are. Software and hardware artifacts are getting completely integrated into most aspects of our professional, social and private lives. And there are consequences to that. And it can have significant ethical implications.

And I don’t even think people are aware of what they’re signing up for, for example when you accept an agreement online to use a free software, what exactly are you agreeing to? Do you understand what doors are opening into your home when you use a smart bot like Alexa or Siri. And so, I do like to focus on those areas of concern and just get the discussion started. It’s important for us to understand the decisions we’re making and how they affect you and your family and your privacy. So I don’t have… No means do I have all the answers, but I have a lot of questions and I enjoy going through a discussion about what trust is and who are we trusting? Do we understand that developers and coders or people too, who often make mistakes? And those people are designing AI or artificial intelligence that will make decisions for us in the future. And there are so many real-world consequences. And that’s what I show whenever I do this talk. And I think it surprises people about the real-world consequences can be extremely severe.

Julia:

That’s a good point. Because I think that’s something me and a lot of other non-technical people never even think about.

Shermaine:

Right. And it’s not anyone’s fault, but I do believe that consumerism and profit often overshadow ethics. And it’s our responsibility as developers and people in this industry to make sure that we keep it at the forefront. I feel like it’s my personal responsibility to bring it up. I’m really annoying, like at a party seriously. I think I scare everyone and ask them questions about their privacy and their information. And it’s just something to think about.

Angela:

That makes me think of this show on Netflix called The Social Dilemma.

Shermaine:

Oh, right. I haven’t seen that one, it’s in my watch list.

Angela:

It’s a good one to binge during the holiday season, if you just have nothing else to watch, although Hallmark holiday movies might help the list. I don’t know.

Shermaine:

I know. Yeah, there are so many.

Angela:

Yeah, but it’s different in a way, because it focuses more on social media and the ethics behind that, the targeted advertising, which is something we in marketing are concerned about too, that’s something on our minds. The targeted advertising and getting your information and using it to your advantage.

Shermaine:

Exactly. I think a lot of people never read… Sometimes when you’re… Like for example, when you’re using a free Wi-Fi network, the service agreement that you sign is just so random and you give this consent to the receipt and collection, use, storage, disclosure of data, that you may not even be aware that you’re giving this away. And that’s just to use free Wi-Fi. So, I believe that it’s really unethical at times that people are being taken advantage of in this way, or they’re not really aware of what they’re giving up.

Angela:

Okay, I have a question for you. And it may be going down this rabbit trail if you will. Maybe we should be having this conversation over a virtual party. But this is something that’s on my mind a lot for companies to consider, I guess people have always traveled for work or gone to a coffee shop for meetings and logged on to the free Wi-Fi wherever they’re eating or traveling. But during the pandemic, my mind keeps coming back to when companies were just so focused on survival mode, and using your own technology and whatever Wi-Fi they had available. It would seem like there are a lot of privacy concerns. If employees are using their personal devices, random Wi-Fi to do business, is that something that companies should be concerned about?

Shermaine:

Oh, yes, that’s a huge concern for any cybersecurity analysts, it is a huge concern. And that’s why most companies do have measures and protocols where I know a lot of companies, they will force you to have some sort of VPN, the virtual private network. And it allows them to control the traffic on your phone, they can inspect it, modify it. And I know you guys probably remember, I don’t know if they still do this. But whenever you were allowed to install some sort of like… If you have some sort of work software on your cell phone, you had to sign an agreement that your employer could erase all of the data on your phone if necessary and you try to protect your data. It’s difficult, but we definitely have… You have certificates that are used that allow you to access certain sites, we have our user passwords. But it can be difficult to protect your data if you’re using an unapproved Wi-Fi service.

Angela:

And I know Access Sciences doesn’t do cybersecurity specifically as a service, but we have received work, we’ve done work with clients who have had the cybersecurity assessment done and revealed that they don’t have a good grasp of what information they have and what systems that information lives in.

Shermaine:

Right.

Angela:

That’s the other component to cybersecurity, is where is your data? Or where is your information? Who has access to it? And how long are you keeping it? I guess, what’s the retention on it?

Shermaine:

Exactly. It’s key. It all work together like auditing and understanding your data. You’re right. Most companies don’t understand how much risk they carry until something bad happens and then they just shut everything down. And no one has access to anything and there’s this really major swing into the other direction where it’s too secure at times.

Angela:

Exactly. What do you think will be a trend in 2021, related to either cybersecurity or privacy?

Shermaine:

I have hopes that people will become more aware. I have seen where a lot of like your email passwords, a lot of people are using different types of authentication. And I think that’s really important. Like using strong, unique passwords and having two-factor authentication on everything. That’s my advice to everyone. Set up two-factor authentication on everything. And that’s just a double check where you log in, and if it’s a new device, they’ll send you a text message and say, “Is this really you?” And you can do that with all of your social media accounts, your email accounts, most of your banking accounts, if you can set up a token. So most… There are companies who offer these additional steps, it’s just a lot of people don’t opt in, because they don’t really understand how it protects them. And I do place blame on the industry and professionals for this, because I feel like the next few years, we really need to educate the American public on how much of our data is being stolen, because it’s unbelievable. But I’m definitely very passionate of that topic.

Angela:

Well, we’ll have to generate some more content and get your SME contribution. Write some more blogs and more podcasts, presentations for-

Shermaine:

Sure, sure. That will be fun. That will be fun.

Julia:

So, I know in addition to ethical computing, you are very, very passionate about connecting students to computing and coding opportunities. So, can you tell us a little bit about your experience with Futures Fund, and I know you have some experience with Girls Who Code as well?

Shermaine:

Oh, sure. I love working with young people. Just based on my own experience, I felt at the beginning of my career that I did not have access to mentors, and I was kind of a team of one many times just encouraging myself. So, I’m very passionate about encouraging girls to pursue STEM related disciplines. And it’s important that we empower young people so that they can thrive in the future and that they understand some of the challenges that we face. So, I’ve worked with several groups, Girls Who Code is one where I was asked to help set up a group at a private school here in Baton Rouge, Louisiana. And I was just there initially to help them get started because they needed a developer and someone who could sign on and be a partner with making sure that they were able to get established at that school. And so, I was really proud to help with that. And I think I got an email, a certificate saying that I was a facilitator, and that was really cool to be a facilitator.

And after that it was… I think it’s run by the school or some of their other volunteers. But I was really happy to be involved, just getting them started. Another organization that I spent many years working with is called Futures Fund. It’s part of a nonprofit called The Walls Project, which started here in town to help build up really dilapidated areas in town by bringing in artwork and murals and just trying to clean up the community. And the person who created this program, he’s just a very passionate person. He also created the Futures Fund, which is an initiative to reach out to kids in the community who don’t have access to coding classes. And it started with coding, and there’s a photography element too. So, there are two tracks that the young people can choose. So, they could choose the coding and development track or the photography track. I started with that program in the first year. So, it’s really near and dear to my heart. I love working with all of those people there.

And it’s changed so much from the beginning when we were just creating the curriculum a few days before class and going in and teaching. So now we have this fully thought-out curriculum that takes the young people, the young coders through coding level one, coding level two, and three. The Futures Fund also helps to find them interns and work. And so, it’s really growing into a phenomenal program.

Angela:

That’s so great to hear. I love stories like that. Is your young daughter interested at all in STEM or in coding? Or is she like, “Mom, no.”

Shermaine:

I think I started them so young that it’s just a part of their lives. I don’t think I would even listen to them if they complain at this point. I do try and make it fun for them. Right now, they’re still using the block coding programs like Scratch and Hour of Code. So, whenever I do classes for young kids, I’ll use Hour of Code, which is super easy. It’s done by Code.org, it’s free and anyone can facilitate one of those classes. You get the kids in there, in the block code, is they just drag and drop code and press… You should press play button to see if your logic works. So, it’s a great way to introduce your kids to coding. And it’s free. So, I encourage anyone to use those methods. It’s funny because my kids get in trouble for remixing, because I consider that pretty lazy. So remixing code is taking someone else’s code and hitting the remix button and just playing around with it. And so, I am kind of hard on them. I’m like, “No, create your own code, stop remixing other people’s code.”

Angela:

That’s hysterical.

Shermaine:

Yes. They’re probably annoyed by me by now.

Angela:

Are your boys into gaming?

Shermaine:

Yes, unfortunately they are. It creates a… For me, if you understand how I feel about computing, one of the topics I discuss a lot in ethical computing is gaming. And the gaming industry is not regulated enough. There’re so many ethical issues. So, I’m really stressed about gaming. I do the best that I can to control the type of games they play. I don’t allow them right now to access the internet while playing where they can play with other people. There’s just a lot of ways in which children where you have to be extra careful. So, that’s a whole other discussion. There’s a lot of pressure there. For me understanding where the risks are, I actually feel terrible for other parents because I understand the risk, right? So, I can come up with a plan. But there are a lot of parents who don’t understand the risk because they believe the marketing. “This is safe for your children, let them be free to play eight hours a day.” And they don’t understand what other access they’re getting by signing onto these devices.

Angela:

Yeah, absolutely. There’s a lot of concern with that.

Shermaine:

Oh, yes.

Angela:

Not only just the screen time, but like you said, who they’re possibly chatting to on the Internet.

Shermaine:

Yes. And just setting up the configuration using the parental controls, it’s like a full-time job. And who has time for that? Like I do it, but it’s really frustrating for me and I’m considered an expert in some of these areas. And gosh, it’s difficult to protect your children online. But everything you get your children, you have to audit and monitor it. So, like I said, another full-time job.

Angela:

Yes. And let’s not even talk about social media, which I think is hysterical that one of the other women featured in the Women Who Code blog, learned how to code by using social media.

Shermaine:

Oh, wow! That’s cool.

Julia:

Yeah, it was Ashley. She wanted to customize her MySpace page, and that’s how she learned the basics of coding so she could move around what she wanted to and put in new widgets. So, I thought that was pretty cool.

Shermaine:

Yeah. Yeah, your first website is always like the best thing. My first one, I used something called FrontPage, which no longer exists, but it was similar. And I was so proud. And it was… Compared to today’s standards, it just looks like a table. But I was really proud.

Angela:

So, Shermaine, as much as I would love to continue having conversation, we’ll have to do this again, maybe with a drink next time, we can talk more about the privacy and social media and all the other fun party topics. So, thank you so much for being our guest today and for all of your work with Girls Who Code. And if you as an audience have not read the Women Who Code blog featuring the Access Sciences employees, check that out on our website.

Shermaine:

Thank you, ladies.