To celebrate International Women’s Day (March 8), Principal Lisa Cromwell discusses women empowerment, “she-cession,” and her own life journey as a woman.

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Episode 9: International Women’s Day with Lisa Cromwell

Julia:

Welcome to Access Answers. I’m your host, Julia Vergara, along with Angela O’Pry, and today we have Lisa Cromwell as our guest to help us celebrate International Women’s Day this year.

Angela:

Lisa, we’re so excited to have you as our guest this month and March, celebrating international women’s day coming up on March 8th. There is not a better person I could have picked for this topic, and you’re a principal with Access Sciences, but also you can find on your LinkedIn that you are a creative thinker, a strategist, a thoughtful coach, and a writer. Love that. For those of you that don’t know, International Women’s Day is a global day celebrating the social, economic, cultural, and political achievements of women. Certainly, have a lot to celebrate your achievements here, and the day also marks a call to action for accelerating women’s equality.

So, before we go down that topic too much, let’s get a little bit more about your background, so the audience can get to know you.

Lisa:

So, thank you, Angela and Julia, for inviting me and International Women’s Day – I just became aware of that. I don’t know, maybe a few years ago, so I don’t know how old it is, but I think it’s wonderful celebrating the female, she or her, anyone that identifies as a woman. You asked me things to celebrate and I just think about, I guess, my own personal journey as a woman and for me, my path was through education. I was fortunate enough to have a scholarship out of high school for college. I think back now, if that had not happened, what would have my path had been and I think about so many women and young girls maybe who still don’t have that path, but that really was key for me.

Going through college and having a degree was the start of access for me. We think a lot today around diversity, equity, and inclusion, and this is a podcast so people can’t see me, but I’m a white woman, but still, as women, we can face barriers, no matter our color and that degree opened some doors. So, I’m thankful for that. Just passionate about access to education and what that can do for women and girls. I am using an example of being able to go to college, but I also know that there are many paths for education. That could be a community college or some other type of path for women.

Angela:

Well, Lisa, you didn’t mention what college you went to and I have to bring that up. I can’t not bring up the fact that you are a fellow Aggie.

Lisa:

Yes, yes. Okay. As I think back to the lingo and the jargon, which is very prevalent at College Station, and you might even put me sometimes in the bad ag category, but-

Angela:

The two percenter.

Lisa:

The two percenter. But, again, grateful for that and I will say something that I didn’t say before in that the path I chose at the time was a male dominated field, which was in the engineering school. That also, at the time, set me apart some, and now I’m very thrilled to see such huge emphasis on STEM for women. Science, technology… Is it engineering? And math. And not saying that that is everyone’s path, but yeah, it was a great experience for me and I think also helped differentiate or distinguish me, right? Because I was a female student predominantly with male students at the time, and I’m a betting that’s still kind of the case, although it’s moving, I think, in a more inclusive direction.

Angela:

Your journey to education continued. Tell us a little bit about your decision to apply and even the last two years of your journey at the Rice Executive MBA program.

Lisa:

Yes. So, I had thought about going back to school several times in my career and had pushed it to the side with things I was telling myself. That I’d waited too long, that I was too old, that it’s just your time has passed, and what negative self-talk. I think sometimes, women, we do that to ourselves. However, in the last… Gosh, I don’t know, six years, maybe eight years, I had another part of my life journey in caring for a parent. Out of that, I really came out of it with this renewed drive and passion and desire to bring as much of myself to the world as possible. I think that came from, I think, that experience, and I’m talking about caring for my mother and I could just hear her voice of like, “Lisa, just go for it.”

So, that started me down the journey of, yes, the time is now, you need to do this. So, I went through the application process, I reached out to other women in my life to be part of this application in terms of those people that tell part of your story about why you should go and be admitted to this school. I did that, and any way, I still remember getting the acceptance and I was like, “Oh my gosh!” It blew me away and it’s been an incredible journey and one of the best things that I’ve ever done for myself. In this program, we are a single cohort of just over 60 people and the learnings, the bonds, the exposure to all of these other people and our professors and the Rice community is invaluable and I am just a better human for going through it. I’m getting close to the finish line and that’s a really great feeling.

Julia:

So when’s the finish line?

Lisa:

Well, it should be this … Well, it will be. How about that? This May 2021.

Julia:

Oh, that’s so exciting.

Lisa:

Yeah. Yeah. Thank you.

Julia:

So throughout the application process, and even just throughout your career, who have your mentors been?

Lisa:

So, I talked about my mother and I know she has so many roles for me and I put her in the champion role and always being an ear for me and so, in that way, a mentor and just never doubting what I could do. Then if I think about starting my career, I think I was lucky in having some female bosses that I really had a strong connection with. When I look back now, again, also lucky in the relationship we were able to create was one of authenticity and trust and empowerment. You realize when you don’t have those things how important they are and so I had relatively, I guess, longer term employment engagements, in my career. If I look back, I wasn’t one that was two years here or a year there.

So, these relationships really helped me and I just thrived, I think, in an environment where trust was given, where I could have real dialogue with my boss and trust each other. I think that kind of became a model for me as I started to lead others and be a leader myself. I’m a person who is very attuned to their environment in the physical way and how that affects our mindset. So as someone who has managed people in an organizational setting or led and managed teams in a project setting, I am being very intentional about the type of environment that I want to create and definitely one where authenticity prevails, letting people know that I really want and need your whole self at the table.

I have some memories sometimes of encountering women who were more hesitant, right? And I saw that and I… Meaning being themselves and contributing, right? As opposed to, sometimes, men on the team. I remember having with one former colleague a very explicit conversation that really helped move us forward, because she came from an environment where what was getting her attention, what was getting her inclusion was her appearance. It had just become ingrained in her and she had toned down her own intelligence because that wasn’t what was asked for or rewarded. It was how she looked. I knew what was on the inside, right? And so, I remember having this conversation with her and it just opened up so many things, right? Then I had such joy of seeing the whole woman. Anyway, when I have opportunities like that to empower other women, that lifts me up.

Angela:

What are some ways that you think are important to empower women? What can we all do to empower each other?

Lisa:

So, that is a really great question, Angela, and one thing that I had looked up ahead of sitting down to do this podcast was the definition of empowerment. And just one sort of funny aside, right? So what do we do? We google now, right? Although I do have an actual hard dictionary in my home. We go to Google, and it said… Well, and it said the process of becoming stronger and more confident, especially in controlling one’s life and claiming one’s rights. And just reading that definition was-

Angela:

… Powerful.

Lisa:

Powerful, right? The funny note there, what I meant to say is that with Google, with it being online, there’s that voice button. I kept pressing the voice. The voice, it was this female voice just saying the word empowerment. I was like, “Yes, say it again.” Just hearing it. And so, anyway. But when I, again, as I read those words, and so I think a couple of things there, it starts with, for me, noticing. Because we’re all individual women and humans and all in different states and places of our life. But if we don’t start with noticing those others around us, then how can we even start the empowerment journey for someone else?

And I think with now everything being online and virtual through this past year, that can be harder. But I think then is if you can… Even doing it in small steps, if we’re talking about in the work setting, can you have some time where you’re talking and trying to just build a relationship in small ways with a colleague and just asking questions and listening about what was your favorite book, or do you like chocolate, or do you even have albums in your house? I mean, starting with just some questions that can break down some barriers and starting to listen to each other.

And so, noticing and being aware, where you can start a relationship. And then I think as each of us gain more influence or power within our own organizations, using that to open doors for other women and being their advocate in conversations that you get to be a participant in because of their role, but they can’t yet. Right? So sort of being that voice. Yeah. That’s what I would say. So, it doesn’t have to be sometimes grand gestures, but I think it’s made up of little actions every day.

Angela:

When I think back three years ago, when I first started with Access Sciences, I can’t honestly remember exactly how, when, or even why it came up. But I had just lost my father a month before to Alzheimer’s. And in some meeting, or conversation, or somehow it came up, Lisa, that that’s your mom, you were caring for her. And she was experiencing that and going through that journey. So that really bonded us from the very beginning. And we were there to support each other, and kind of cemented our empowerment journey for each other and have stayed that course over the past three years. So like I said, I don’t remember how, when or why that conversation even… It came out that you were suffering from the same experience, but it is powerful when you find that you can relate to someone and be there for them.

Lisa:

Absolutely. And Angela, I think I recall we may have had a glass of wine. I think that may have been part of it.

Angela:

Yeah. Yeah. There’s usually wine involved, nothing wrong with that.

Lisa:

Yes.

Angela:

And you also have nieces that you talk frequently about that are a big part of your life. And so, when you think about empowerment, what are some words that you would share with them and maybe you already have shared with them, I’m sure.

Lisa:

Yes. I am so lucky and grateful to be an aunt to my brothers two daughters. And the oldest, my oldest niece is, I think she will be 18. I think I got that right. In the summertime. So, she’s about to graduate from high school and then start her journey, which she also has got a scholarship, but hers was the combined athletic and academic scholarship. So, she is an inspiration to me. And my younger niece, a little bit younger, as well. And I would say just seeing their both physical strength, athletics. They both have been athletes. So that was never me, but I see how that has already, as young girls and young women had an incredible impact. I think, and I digress slightly, but just as women if you’ve got that physical strength, I think that shows up in how you present yourself.

So, that’s just been amazing to see. And they are both so much more aware and engaged of the world, and people different from them, and they embrace it and they fight for causes. And I’m just like, “Oh my gosh, this is just great to see.” And so, the other thing though is… So I certainly have shared sometimes coming back to education with them, how important that was. And I guess indirectly trying to maybe plant a seed that wherever you go maybe some continuing education is going to help you. So I’m seeing that come to fruition. But the other thing that we share is just very openly. And in words, saying, “I love you.”

Angela:

Yeah.

Lisa:

In a text with emojis. And it’s just so simple, but it’s still empowering. And they have been sources of strength on the journey as I was going through with my mom as other family members. But I am just so excited to see where they’re going to go. I think that’s what I’ll say right now. And I’m just looking forward to their continued growth as women and as humans.

Angela:

Well, you certainly are the cool aunt Lisa. They come in, they love to come [crosstalk 00:20:48].

Lisa:

Yeah. I’m trying to hang on to that for a little bit longer.

Angela:

You have the closet full of cool clothes.

Lisa:

That is true. And I do have one memory of… And it was around the time when my family was here and we were getting ready for my mother’s funeral service. And so I had in my closet, some of her clothes from the time that we lived in Hawaii. And so these were very unique clothes and dresses from a different place and also a different era, probably the 1970s. And so I remember opening my closet and my two nieces going in and finding outfits that they just were like, “Can I try this on?” And I was like, “Yes, please.” And it was just wonderful to see. So my oldest niece found this gown that almost was very… What is it? Frozen? I mean, just this long flowing gown with the bell sleeves. And I still remember her asking my sister-in-law, she’s like, “Mom, could I wear this tomorrow to the funeral?”

She ended up choosing something else, but it was just, I think that authenticity and seeing their joy on their faces and knowing that that was worn by their grandmother, my mom, and then the younger one, finding this other outfit that was such iconic of the time that just fit her personality. This short vest that had the midriff open and this skirt, I don’t know, it was just a neat moment. So, thank you for reminding me of that.

Angela:

Lisa, I mentioned earlier at the beginning of this episode that you are a creative thinker, and I know we talk a lot about creativity in our conversations. What are some ways that you express your creativity?

Lisa:

Yes. So, that is something more and more that brings me joy and inspires me is that outlet. And believe it or not one of the ways… Some of it is about that environment around you and getting yourself into that zone. Right? Sometimes people talk about that moment of flow, where you’re not trying to block thoughts. And so for me, using color and coloring, or colored pencils and a piece of paper sometimes helps me in that I am using… I’m thinking through some situations. So, I’m actually writing words on the page and I’m using arrows to connect words. But then I’m using the colors also to annotate or draw or make connections. And it may be just saying these words may be hard for others to relate to it, but it really just helps engage some part of my brain that I think by the combination of just letting things flow, I’m starting to make connections to what I’ve actually got on the page.

And I’d say the other way is getting some immediate feedback from other people about an idea or an inspiration. And that really helps because again, we’re all different. And so something that maybe I might discount, if I am sharing early and thought process, then I can either get some validation or some different perspective. And then that keeps that sort of creativity engine going. I would say if we come back to the workplace, then that environment plays a huge role. And I think that the notion of coming back to empowerment and psychological safety in… and psychological safety, in feeling that it’s okay to be creative, and to use time to do that. Because sometimes, like I talked about, writing words and drawing, so there’s some actual physical activity going on, but other times it may be something where you’re more still, and that may feel awkward, or that you’re not contributing towards something, right? Because there’s not an action. You’re not typing. And it varies for people, but I do think that a key aspect is giving yourself that time and permission to do it, and being part of an organization that embraces that and recognizes that being innovative and creative can feel risky sometimes, because it means that we’re sort of giving in to the process, into the journey. We don’t know where the outcome may lead, and it may come out with something that isn’t quite right, or that we consider a failure. And sometimes even saying that word, but yet if we never go down these paths, then how do we learn from it and make it better? So yeah, those are some things that helped me.

Julia:

In our last podcast with Jeff Moore from the Austin Convention Center, he referenced a study that found that in COVID, productivity has… I think it was either remained the same or increased, but what has decreased was creativity. And he said that it’s just because it’s very important having that in-person interaction, being able to whiteboard those ideas. So, I thought that was pretty interesting.

Lisa:

Yeah. And it’s probably not surprising to me to hear that outcome from that study, because maybe just as I reflect on some of the things I said, right, which is sometimes getting that early feedback, or sharing it, and if we go back to the work environment, sometimes that happens with popping out of your cube or your office, and going into the next office, and just having that interaction and that spark to keep going, and those informal collisions that help us. And especially, Julia, you mentioned the white board. I absolutely miss the huge white boards that we have in our own offices, right? And now I have my small notebook and my page where I’m trying to do it. And so far the virtual ones, they’re getting better, but it’s not quite the same. I could see how that’s taking an impact. Absolutely.

Angela:

I think the tools, like you said, Lisa, are making significant strides, especially in the past year. I know, Julia, you wrote the blog about virtual whiteboards last summer, and I feel like even since then so much has changed. What I find for my own self is the distractions, just my environment, and I think, Lisa, you even touched on it earlier. Your environment is so important. So being at home, I just have significantly more distraction that takes me out of that focused, free flowing creative space. I’m thinking about, “Oh, I need to go start the washing machine.” And, “Oh, let me just do a load of dishes really quick.” And, “What’s my grocery list for the week?” And it’s because I’m at home. I’m thinking about these things. It’s right in front of me.

Lisa:

Angela, I’m so glad you said that, because you raised something that I wanted to just highlight briefly, which is the role of women at home. And I’m not in any way positing that it’s always only women in these roles, but now the fragmentation of their time and their attention is even higher at home. And especially our working moms with children who have also been impacted by being at home, or a spouse or a partner who’s also at home, how do you even maintain your healthy, mental outlook through all of that? Because you, as a woman, and I’ll just say as a human, we care about all those things. And now you’re at home environment, they’re all there with you. And so I know that that’s incredibly fatiguing, and have heard from some colleagues and others about how creative women are getting sometimes to try to even make that physical space at home theirs. Like, “Where? Where can I actually find a space that I can go and it’s just mine?” Sometimes that’s up in the attic, and that’s a true story. But then there’s other situations where that may not be possible, right?

Angela:

Everyone needs a she shed.

Lisa:

Oh, absolutely. That reminds me of Pinterest, so I think I have… I don’t have a board called “She Shed.” It may be called “House/Home,” but I know that I have images of she sheds, and yeah, that would be a dream, I think, to have your own space, to just be you. Yeah.

Angela:

What would be in your she shed. Would it be an open wine bar? Would it be an art studio? Would it be a movie theater?

Lisa:

Oh, wow.

Angela:

A library?

Julia:

Or all of the above?

Lisa:

Yeah. I definitely… Yeah. Yeah. So, books would be there. Music would be there, and actually maybe a turntable. There is something just about the process of taking out the album, putting it on, dropping the needle, and sitting back. But music, and I happen to be a fan of a very nice dry martini, so I might have a shaker maybe in there, and I think natural light and plants. Oh, gosh. Keeping going, now it’s becoming more real for me, but yeah. And then a place, I think, for pets.

Angela:

I know. You can’t exclude the cats, too. They need a home out there.

Lisa:

They do. They do. Yeah.

Angela:

I love turntables also, and I’ve stayed in some Airbnbs that have them, and my sisters have them. And I was all set to ask for one for my birthday a few years ago, until I realized you had to collect the records. And I just was like, “What am I going to do with a bunch of records? I don’t have a place… I’m not a collector of things like that.” And so I do love them, though. They’re very relaxing, I guess. I love to just turn it on and the sound is different.

Lisa:

Yeah. Which obviously I have some in my home, and I think just the concept of an album, I know you still can download an entire album, but I think when it’s in physical form, to me, there’s more of an impact in terms of the concept or the message, what the album is about, as opposed to individual songs. Anyway, that’s a digression.

Angela:

What’s your favorite album? Greatest of all time. What would you say?

Lisa:

You know, Angela, I don’t know that I could answer that here today. I may have to pass on that one.

Angela:

I thought for sure it would be the Taylor Swift album that she just rerecorded. No?

Lisa:

So, don’t try to age me now, but no. Obviously, I do listen to Taylor Swift, but I don’t have any of her albums, the actual physical albums. Yeah.

Julia:

So maybe not artists, but do you have any favorite thought leaders in mind that you like following? Any authors?

Lisa:

I’ll think of some various sources. With social media, I’m more on Instagram, and so there I follow Thrive Global. So, that was started by Arianna Huffington, and for me, it’s just some of the postings they have on messages or inspirations serve purposes for me. You just go and you see a phrase. There was one the other day that I think was talking about, just was a graphic of, “Is personal growth supposed to be this linear?” Right? “This always upward path.” And then beside it was what it actually looks like, which was all these circles, and down and up, and just even seeing that helped me. Because it’s like, “Of course not.” Right? We’re not always this way. And whatever journey you take is yours.

So, there’s that, and there’s some other authors. I know one that Angela and I share is Elizabeth Gilbert.

Angela:

Yes.

Lisa:

And the book that Angela turned me on to, which helped me remember Angela, was it Magic? What was it?

Angela:

Big Magic.

Lisa:

Big Magic. Thank you. And that also, I felt like sometimes when I was reading that book was sort of like my mother’s voice in my ear, and you can do things and bring yourself to the world, but a part of that also is accepting that fear comes along with it, and just moving forward. And I think that’s a lot of what has inspired and motivated me in the time since my mom’s passing, right, is just keep moving forward. The fear is part of the journey, but keep going.

Angela:

I was doing some research before our schedule today, our recording, and I saw on one news article, they’re referring to this quote-unquote “she-cession,” instead of a recession, which is in reference to the jobs that were lost by women in 2020 as a result of the pandemic. And in December alone, there was a report of 140,000 jobs lost, all of which were by women, presumably because of a variety of different factors, one of them being education, which has been a highlight of our conversation today, and the roles that they play, and also being a working mother and having other obligations that took them out of the workforce.

Angela:

So the founder of Girls Who Code, which we as Access Sciences have been supporting this mission and supporting young girls in STEM and leading them down that education journey for them, the founder Reshma Saujani started this Marshall Plan for Moms where she’s asking the federal government to help support the working mothers and really put a dollar to the value that they’re providing to society, because really they’re taking unpaid jobs and losing out on the benefits and the experience, and their careers, et cetera.

So, I guess do you have any thoughts or have any connections that you know that have been experiencing this?

Lisa:

So, I’m aware of the statistics and numbers and impact that you refer to Angela, because I had seen an article that touched on it and I actually posted it on LinkedIn and there’s been some other articles too and it actually, it’s such a tragedy and I remember maybe the first time I was coming across it. I mean, I was almost starting to cry a little bit because the message was, in some cases, the decision that a lot of these women were making was going to be a permanent one. They were not going to come back into the workforce. And I just think, wow. In terms of growth and equity, to me that also means that you have choices and if that is your only choice between perhaps surviving or not, then that is a very terrible state to be in for women and just highlights again how vulnerable women can be sometimes.

So, I would support that notion of the Marshall Plan and the other thing I think about too, is the Equal Rights Amendment and believe it or not, I have a very early memory. I mean, so my parents were probably a little bit more progressive of like being on an early picket line around trying to get attention for the Equal Rights Amendment and it’s still not ratified, right? And it’s about having equal protection for women in the Constitution.

I don’t want to go too far down a political path in this, in our podcast today, but I just wonder if we had that, would that even add more support for what the Marshall Plan is about and just the notion of equal protection under the law for women.

I do, in my own journey, accept that I have privilege as a part of that and so when I think about the notion of the Marshall Plan, or women that have lost jobs, I think that a lot of them may be in situations where they didn’t have my access to education or their jobs were of a different sort, that didn’t provide benefits that I have.

Again, I kind of come back to the notion that that became the stopping point and now they’re going to opt out and it’s just really sad. So I do want to educate myself more on the plan that you referenced, Angela, and continue to highlight that where I can and support it.

Angela:

Yeah, absolutely. You know, with International Women’s Day approaching just right around the corner on March 8th, I think we can all acknowledge we have a ways to go; certainly something to celebrate that we have for the first time ever in the history of the United States, a female vice president. So, that is progress, but I think the reports from the jobs lost, we still have a ways to go.

Lisa:

Yes, that is a huge moment to celebrate and again, I go back to my nieces and what impact this is going to have on them, where there will be any messages. Well, potentially less messages in their head about, “Oh, that’s not the right path for you. Just don’t go down there.” Right? Look what they get to see. Right? I love that. And the thing also that I think I really find uplifting about that is that it’s also pairing the woman and the man together. So it’s again, it’s showing this strong one, a female leader, but also a partnership. And maybe in some way, also modeling it allyship between men and women and that’s another area where I think women and men can support each other. When allies and mentors, there’s no definition of what gender that needs to be, but I think when you have those strong allyships of men and women together, it’s even more powerful. So, I really, I like that image.

Angela:

So, Lisa, I think you probably also received the email from the Greater Houston Partnership that their annual Rise to the Top event is already approaching. I think that was our last sponsored event and the luncheon that Access Sciences attended in person in 2020. I cannot believe it’s already here again in 2021. So, I really appreciate the GHP. They always put on phenomenal events and the Women’s Energy Network. I know you’re a member of that as well and attending a presentation recently about DEI and Diversity Equity and Inclusion, supporting women and energy.

Are there any other resources, or events or organizations, that you recommend?

Lisa:

Yeah, so Angela, I remember the Rise of the Top event as well and how nice that was to be in person and I do miss that and look forward to it when we can meet in person. But I also have attended one in person, and then now virtually, the Women in Leadership Conference, which is put on by Rice Business and that has been a wonderful event. It’s just, it’s a day and it’s usually, it has been in February around Valentine’s Day and it’s just a day where there are inspirational speakers and women who are leaders sharing their story, taking in questions and I think helping to inspire other women on their journey. And it’s also an opportunity to attend a session and sit next to someone and again, make that connection with who they are, why they’re there and come away with a new bond that you didn’t have before.

I think it’s also powerful sort of to have a day where that focus is on women and just hearing these stories and being inspired by them. So I would recommend that to women as well.

So, Angela and Julia, I also go back to our webinar series that Access Sciences did in the height of… Well last summer. And I clearly remember seeing our promotion for our webinar and it was all women and it was very powerful to me to see that and have that be out there and I just thought how great that was for other LinkedIn members to see and get an idea of Access Sciences. We are a women’s business enterprise and have a female founder. We have women on our executive team and we have women in technology and just seeing that out in the world, it just made me feel really proud to see that.

Angela:

Yes, and our first ever podcast was all women.

Lisa:

Yes. And you know, and again at our company, we have allies of men as well, but just shining that spotlight on the women in our company made me feel proud.

Angela:

Well, thank you so much for being our podcast guest today and talking about International Women’s Day. Again, I could not have picked a better guest to talk about this topic and #choosetochallenge from International Women’s Day. You can find it on their website and social media.

Lisa:

Thank you again, Angela and Julia.